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Forum:Val-Fask
Topic transplanted from User_talk:JoeJoeFine. ________________________________________________________ Greetings, JoeJoeFine. I was looking around your contributions and you seem to be very knowledgeable about the GA universe; which takes me to the following point: on your edit on the Val-Fask page you mention the White Moon managed to escape the Chrono Quake yet say nothing about the Black Moon. My question is: do you happen to know what influence did the Val-Fask had over Eonia's Coup'd Etat? Thanks a lotDashguy 14:36, 24 August 2009 (UTC) ________________ Hiya Dashguy I don't think there was any influence by the Val-Fasq, or at least I don't recall the games ever mentioned a link. The Black Moon also escapes Juno and spends the 200 years of the quake stuck deep in the middle of frozen chronospace. After the quake, it spent another 400 years searching for the White Moon in order to carry out it's original program (basically: fight + merge). On meeting Eonia by chance, the Black Moon learned the location of the White Moon from him. It then sided with Eonia in order to best carry out it's goal. As for the Black Moon being captured by the Val-Fasq, and then secretly sent to assist Eonia with the intention of weakening Transbaal (I'm guessing this is what you were thinking). Again nothing mentioned, but I think it's unlikely. Being half of a self-aware superweapon designed specifically to commit bloody murder upon the Val-Fasq, I would imagine that a undamaged Black Moon would have been perfectly capable of defending itself against any Val-Fasq attempt to capture it. The fact that Nephelia could only take charge of the Black Moon only after it was all but destroyed would seem to support this. Feel free to ask any questions or discuss any points. One of the great things about the GA game/manga universe is it has a surprising amount of background, but it also has enough blank spots for people to form their own theories. --JoeJoeFine 03:47, 25 August 2009 (UTC) ______________________ Ah, I thought that too. It's just that there are a lot of sites that mention a Val-Fask conspiracy and how Eonia was used by them. Of course that being a fervent fan of the former 14th Prince I wasn't willing to accept he could have been manipulated by somebody else (other than the Black Moon). And speaking about the Black Moon, I personally found the existence of the "human" Noah to be sort of an inconsistency. We all know the Twin Moons had completely different philosophies and such it's only logic to think that one would need a human operator while the other would be completely sentient. Then why does the Black Moon have a "hidden" human operator? It is a safety measure? Does this mean the White Moon is sentient too? If Nephelia built the O-Gaub by using the data extracted from the core of the Black Moon wouldn't have been easier to treat said core as some sort of hard disk? Was there really any need to create a character? Don't get me wrong, I like her but... Dashguy 12:48, 25 August 2009 (UTC) ______________________ Are any of the sources that mention the Val-Fasq/Eonia conspiracy official? A complicated ploy by the Val-Fasq here just seems unnecessary and very risky. They have no idea how much Shatoyan remembers, what if the White Moon WINS the contest and the moons merge with the White Moon being dominant? What's wrong with simply sending the Black Moon at the head of a massive Val-Fasq invasion fleet, lead by a Val-Fasq commander which unlike Eonia has absolutely no reservations about destroying the White Moon outright and killing Shatoyan? The hidden admin wasn't a design feature, Noa simply didn't want to be alone in space for several hundred years. So she put android Noa in charge and went into stasis. In the Manga, both moons have their own wills and their respective admins can understand them. At the end of the day, the Black Moon is still just a weapon built by the Eden Civilization to imitate Val-Fasq tactics. It could well be that the EDEN design team felt that having no human admin was going abit too far and/or was potentially dangerous. Heh... You think they reintroduced Noa purely for the Loli and Moe factor? This might have been a part of it... But they can't just have Shatoyan (and I remind you she is devoted to peace) pulling out super weapons and coming up with most of the solutions for the remaining 5 games, they needed a accomplice to mix things up at the least... She also gives Shatoyan a happy ending by nicely resolving her lonliness issues. Noa does do a fair bit in Moonlit and Eternal including saving the Elle Ciel on their first meeting. I'm sure they could have reworked the story to drop Noa, but I think the story is better with her than without. --JoeJoeFine 20:36, 25 August 2009 (UTC) ———————————— Yeah, none of those sources are official, just fan speculation. Heh, I suppose that having reached this point there is no use in arguing about Noah, right? She has already consolidated herself as an important character in the franchise and her role is even greater in MKnK and EKnK.Dashguy 21:18, 25 August 2009 (UTC) ____________ Err... I know you said you like her... But this doesn't have something to do with Noa being all over Eonia while secretly manipulating him does it? Let me guess, you rejoiced when she seemingly died, only to have the producers bring her back to life... To be fair to Noa, real Noa and android Noa are completely different people. Android Noa was probably malfunctioning which technically means she qualifies for diminished responsibility... As for real Noa, I actually found some of her scenes in ML and EL quite touching. --JoeJoeFine 03:24, 26 August 2009 (UTC) ——————————— Heh, not quite, I like Noah/Black Moon. She/it is, in my opinion, the most fearsome big bad in the entire GA series and the revelation of her true nature was a shocking plot twist. And I like the human Noah too, it's really nice to see her grow up and mature, both physically and mentally, during the games. It's just that the question always lingered in my mind: why putting a human operator in a weapon that was supposed to be sentient from the beginning? That kinda makes the whole experiment to find the best way to fight against the Val-Fask kinda pointless, if you ask me. And speaking about the Val-Fask...I don't really like them. Sure the idea is a pretty good one: a sufficiently advanced alien race with extreme lifespans, ability to interface with and control machinery and despise for human emotions. That would be nice if it wasn't for the fact our friends are pretty fond of certain emotions such as cruelty and apathy, so common around bad guys. There's no way to feel any sort of symphaty or admiration towards them since their most prominent representatives (Nephelia, Rowil and Gern) behave in a highly stereotypical villanous way. If only they would be more like Wein things could have been different. If anything there must be a reason they didn't appeared in the manga (Wein did).Dashguy 12:47, 26 August 2009 (UTC) __________________ But the Val-Fasq themselves are sentient and their fleets though automated always did have a living commander. So I see no real contradiction in the Black Moon having a living admin. I think saying the Val-Fasq lack emotions is a mistake (and I plan to edit them out), they are clearly able to show negative emotions as you have said, and can probably feel the good ones too. What the Val-Fasq does is they shun and suppress their good emotions as they see it as a weakness, hence they do not fight to protect others. Sometime, villains simply exist to be hated and give the players a buzz when they eventually get to kill them... Nephelia could have had a little more background. But since she's the first Val-Fasq we meet, making her bake cookies for orphans when not conqueoring the galaxy will probably really confuse alot of players and send out the wrong message... Rowil is a very small role and was essentially just a decoy for Wein. Gern is kinda a scapegoat... Either Gern is a evil megalomaniac bastard, or the Val-Fasq are all bastards. Since GA2 went with "Val-Fasq can be nice people too". Gern has to be pure evil in order to take the fall of making the Val-Fasq such a evil society. Wein was in the manga? Which series? I though the Val-fasq never showed up since they never turned the ML and EL storyline into a Manga. Btw, don't suppose you know ehy the GA2 manga seems to have halted. --JoeJoeFine 19:22, 26 August 2009 (UTC) ———————————— Ah, my mistake. Wein does appear in the manga as well as Lushati but in those four panel mini comics (you know, the funny ones).Dashguy 20:54, 26 August 2009 (UTC) ——————————— I see you have made the changes to the Val-Fask section, hopefully this will come in handy for who haven't had the chance to play the games or don't know japanese(e.g. me). Regarding your question about the GA II manga, I apologize for not doing a complete post yesterday (time can be a complicated subject sometimes), but the answer is no. I have no idea why it halted other than the fact Broccoli Books USA closed down. Finally, I have to agree with you. Sometimes villains exist solely for the sake of conflict and nothing else. However, and due to my preference for "white and gray morality", I believe there is something very wrong with the whole setting of Project GA (and even more in the manga). Just think about it: the 14th Prince and heir to the throne commits a crime that is only referred as "touching the forbbiden" and the ambiguousness of said statement is never touched or questioned. Five years later said Prince comes back and lauches a brutal attack that ends with the life of the Emperor, the Royal Family and any other potential heir. Or so we think. There is still hope, for the Emperor has a son of which only a few knew about whom he left as a baby under the care of the Moon Goddess. A son that was later revealed to be a girl. A girl that was later revealed to be the daughter of the Moon Goddess. I know this is not of public knowledge but among those who know...aren't they the slightest bothered by this fact? I do not mean to criticize Shiva for I believe she is worth of being the Empress up to the last hair but...it's like "Dude! She's the illegitimate offspring of the Emperor and the head of the religious state!". Last but not least, the death count. Eonia bombarded the capital of Transbaal then blasted the satellite city Fargo and Roum to Kingdom Come and nobody says anything. That should be around six billion corpses. Why aren't they having a couple of civil wars or even a bunch of people singing protest songs? So in the end you have: a religious figure so powerful that can make countless people accept a ten year old child as their empress without questioning. And despite that she is nothing more than a caged bird. An Emperor that can have a illegitimate carnal relationship with the above mentioned person and even pact with certain members of the Military in order to get rid of any potential witness, like his son. A shady and suspicious Military (I'll talk about them later). A corporation that seems to be the single supplier of every single product for every single aspect of the Empire (monopoly? where?) A populace that doesn't care about the loss of lives (religious fanatics? fearful citizens?) The truth lies out there... P.D.: you do not need to take this seriously, I'm just having fun with my own theories.Dashguy 15:24, 27 August 2009 (UTC) __________________________ Nah, we agree on a lot here, we just have slightly different spins. I assumed you knew Japanese since you've played GA2, how is it you haven't played GA1? I've only played ML and EL, and most of my knowledge of the first game comes from the Manga (which I know doesn't follow the game completely) and other net sources. So anything I say about the first game might not be entirely right. This is quite fun for me, so I'll try to respond, but I need time to think... :) I thought GA did a decent enough job of making sure most of the big bads had a background and most were not completely evil. "Most" is a good thing as giving every bad guy an excuses for being evil means you've just droped into the opposite "everyone is a victim" camp, which is just as unrealistic (not to mention a little emo). In RL, some people are simply asshats. Anyone who might have questioned what Eonia's original crime was are either: Too concerned about his current crime and trying not to get captured and/or killed by him (Takuto and co). Already a loyal servants to the prince and doesn't really care or feel the need to talk about it (Sherry and co). Never got any air time (Everyone else). Shiva being a illegitimate daughter doesn't matter if there is no legitimate heirs alive (or anyone else at all for that matter...). European and Asian history has both had many monarchs with much more dubious linages than Shiva. And yes, Shatoyan's (and Luft's) support probably counts for alot too. Head of the religious state really isn't that much of a issue if the said religion is your state religion. Unlike RL religion, the "Church of the White Moon" is solely part of the empire and has no obligation to other foreign entities, which means no conflict of interests. I'm pretty sure Rhome was just a barren planet that Fargo orbited, The loss of life would be primaily from Fargo and the capital, which on the scale of things can't be that serious. Rioting in RL works because at the end of the day, even the worse governments don't really want to hurt their own people (as it may cause them to lose the support of the military). Eonia on the other hand has a automated fleet which he has already used once to nuke a city. Rioting just doesn't seem like a very wise course of action here... :( The White Moon probably needs Shatoyan (or Shiva) to be onboard at all times in order to function. Not 100% but I that was the feeling I got from the games and it also makes sense. Not sure what you mean about Gerald and his officers... But you didn't expect everyone on the Transbaal side to be good guys did you? This is Mint's family right? A better question would be why the hell would said galactic spanning corporation allow their heiress to risk her life as a pilot in a frontline fighting unit??? --JoeJoeFine 03:19, 30 August 2009 (UTC) ———————————— I downloaded PS2 ML from some site and got the GA II trilogy via torrents. Add some english manga scans from a friend, some japanese scans, some net sources and plenty of guessing and you got my entire knowledge pool (quite impressive, isn't?). Now, I know that some opponents are there simply for the evulz but I also find the ways GA has to avoid the big majority of the moral dilemmas as well as navel contemplation that come with war to be very amusing. There's always a way to justify where those automated ships come from and the bad guys from ML to onwards are so despicable that the only thing you can do when they get shot in the face with the Chrono Break Cannon is to cheer. Seriously, it's like the only problems they got are the ones related to relationships: "Oh God, is that new recruit flirting with my sweetheart?! I should probably go and have a meaningful conversation with her/him in order to dissipate any doubts...on the other hand that would be boring so I'll rather wait up to the last minute while the tension accumulates. Of course that this would also affect our performance in battle but that would only make things more interesting! After all it's not like our victory is already obvious to anyone, right?".(Sorry, I really wanted to write that). The manga did a good job on that matter. Remember the final battle with the Hell Hounds when they were turned into battle machines by Noa against their will? The discussion regarding if they should kill them or not? The Angelic Wings? Milfeulle in tears embracing Camus? Sherry remembering Eonia as she charged towards the Elsior? Shatoyarn crying as she witnessed everything? That's the kind of feeling I want! It's like: "Dude! This war is all wrong! They all got reasons to fight, goals to achieve and people they want to protect! Where is the justice in this battle?!!!" *pant* *pant* Huh...? Oh yeah, Galaxy Angel. Ejem. You've got a point with the stuff about Shiva's lineage. And I must admit it never ocurred to me that Roum could have been completely deserted. Regarding the presence of Shatoyarn in the White Moon, I'm pretty sure you're right but remember the moral implications about her isolation were addressed in the manga. About the riots, I wasn't talking about the people against Eonia but rather the people against the goverment and the Military once the war is over. Sure, it was the Angel Troupe and Takuto whom essentially saved everybody but still...would the loss of millions of lives be accepted just like that? Finally, every single GA source out there says that Mint got into the Army "to get away from her naggy parents". Moreover I don't think that the Angel Troupe had a lot of action before Eonia's Coup; remember how Darno had no qualms about taking Mint away from the Army during her chapter in Project GA?Dashguy 16:23, 31 August 2009 (UTC) ____________________________ If you haven't already, I really recommend you watch Tengen Toppa... :) Ok, we know that the main reason the angels always end up fighting unmanned ships is the designers didn't want their girls marked as mass-murderers. But I was quite impressed on how the story was written around why the ships were unmanned, more specifically, Details of the Black Moon, why Eonia's coup worked and why the Valfask were the way they were. For me, the mix of lightheartedness with bits of more edgey plot points was what made me love the GA series in the first place. Maybe I just came at it with different expectations from the start... I saw the cute character designs and the insane amount of pyrotechnics in the fights and basically expected the GA anime. But the relatively complicated storyline and depth really surprised me. Yeah it's not life changingly profound and there are some liberties with ass pulls, but I was still surprised it exceeded it expactations and I really enjoyed it. Actually, come to think of it, ML was pretty weak compared to EL in this department... EL does have more of the elements that you seem to want, with the whole Wein-Lushati and Valfask question. And neither of us has played GA, so maybe it's actually quite close to the Manga? Been awhile since I read the manga... Shatoyan, what moral implications? I'm guessing you don't play Civ... Ok, Course and length of war all contribute to riots, but the key here is the type of war fought. The Transbaal military were basically forced to fight a defensive war and lost. As far as the people know, the government or military did not cause the war and are not at fault. And considering many in the military died trying to defend it's people, you need to be a complete jackass to stand up afterwards and shout "you guys suck!" In contrast, most RL modern conflicts with western involvement were considered invasions, and people just don't seemm to like them... Having amazing PR would help in this case, but yeah, even they won't be able to explain a million civilians getting wasted. --JoeJoeFine 03:42, September 5, 2009 (UTC) ———————————— Well, the Black Moon and the Val-Fask were something but it almost seems like if they weren't even trying in GA II. The Shadow Moon is an expy of the Black Moon. The Three Marquises use battleships seemingly provided by Parfait and Will employs ummaned ships because of...well, you know, they´re so advanced and blah. I admit I felt exactly the same regarding the games and the manga. Back then I only watched the anime, then one day I came by accident into the Broccoli page for GA and the promotional video for EL (I can´t possibly tell how much I love Angelic Symphony). Come on, I´m pretty sure you remember it. The whole stuff of Shatoyarn being "trapped" inside the White Moon? And how Eonia wanted Shiva in order to make Shatoyarn "free"? I think it´s a far more interesting motivation than just revenge or something like that. I suppose you´ve got a point with the war stuff. It´s just I would like to see GA being a little deconstructed in those aspects.Dashguy 05:20, September 5, 2009 (UTC) __________________________ Yeah, I thought the idea of the twin moons was awesome and probably the highlight for ML. When I read something about the Shadow Moon, I remember thinking "they better have a damn good explaination for this thing and not mess up the previous stuff..." And the 3 Marquises sounded like typical card carrying villains (look it up on TV tropes) from the start... Having only had experienced the original GA series, things look pretty good from here. I still really want to play GAII one day, but it's mainly because I want to see the original cast. I'm sure the new characters have their own charms and the fight engine is even better, but again, my expectations ain't that high and I don't expect it to be as good as GA1 story wise. I just assume Eonia in the manga is more or less the same as in the game. You haven't played GA either right? Are you sure Eonia's motivation in the game isn't the same as in the manga? But yeah, if it is specifically stated that it was all just for revenge for being exiled, then that also makes Eonia a very 2D villain too. A shame really... I get the idea that Transbaal is just like one of those fantasy kingdoms you see in typical RPGs where everyone is happy as long as they're not caught in a war. Or maybe the iffy stuff does all happen, but we just don't hear about it. After all, the Angels always seem to pick the nice worlds to vacation on... --JoeJoeFine 14:54, September 5, 2009 (UTC) __________________________ Wow, I'm gone from my wiki for (quite) a while, and a nice discussion on GA pops up! By the way, welcome to the wiki JoeJoeFine, I'm the main admin and founder of the GA wiki. I'll try to address some of the comments here with what I know about the series. I haven't played the games in a while, so I may be a bit iffy on some of the content. When it comes to the presence of Noah in the supposedly fully automated Black Moon, I'm thinking her role was more to monitor the Moon and it's performance rather than to control it. I'm pretty sure they put her into cold sleep early on and constructed the Noah interface precisely because the moon was fully automated, and that she would be awoken in only special cases. In terms of the games, you have to remember that the game is almost entirely from Takuto's point of view. His primary job during the games is to develop winning strategies and to support the Angel Troupe. Lester is likely the one better keeping up with news on the wars and their development, while keeping Takuto briefed on the matter. I'd assume most larger war decisions are taken care of by Luft and Shiva, perhaps in consultation with Shatoyan. And yes, most of the time in the field, there was no problem, as almost all enemy ships were automated, with no living beings on board. When it comes to the back story of Eonia, there wasn't much talk of it in the first GA game; in fact, I'm not sure I had any real explanation until reading the timeline on the Project GA website. I can't compare to any additional content provided by the manga, I have not read any of it, but my impression of it is that it can provide valuable depth the the content provided in the games. GAII is definitely weaker story-wise than GA, where the flow of the games more or less mirrors the original games, with the first game dealing with a coup, the second game being the fight against the advance force for the big villains, and the third game fighting the big villains and revealing all sorts of crazy stuff at the same time. Don't get me wrong, the games were quite fun, and the characters memorable; but you shouldn't be expecting an award-winning story. I was never under the impression that Shatoyan was confined to the White Moon, but when I think about it, I don't think she's ever left it, so perhaps that's true. I'm not sure how lonely she would be though, considering that before the first GA game, it was populated by the Moon Priestesses, who then became the Elle Ciel crew. Perhaps it was after this point the Moon had few people, I don't know. -Amakase 19:15, September 5, 2009 (UTC) ———————————— Glad you could join us, Amakase. Like you said, the plot of the GA II games is not as good as those from the first trilogy and I would like to say that neither is the battle system (IMO, at least). The first thing you notice is that, unlike the first three games, your basic screen is not the camera following the ships from behind but rather the battle map. This, if you ask me, significantly decreases the appreciation of the battle action. I also assume you all remember that, in the first games, the commands were given in 2-D yet the actions were executed in 3-D; this means the ships would also fly up and down and attack from many different angles (sure this didn´t had any effect on the battle other than vissual attractiveness, but still...). On GA II, however, is all purely 2-D which means the ships charge at each other head-on while firing only to move aside at the last minute. Now, regarding the Angel Frames, I always liked how different those of the Moon Angels were among each other. While playing you could easily see how the Kung-Fu Fighter was the fastest, how the Harvester could take more damage or how the Trick Master could strike enemies behind it. They were unique. The Rune Frames, on the other hand, are all too similar : they all have two modes (flight and battle) and same weaponry (machine gun and missiles) which despite the different colors and shapes are basically the same. Moreover, despite having supposedly different specialties (e.g. Cross Caliber being all-purpose. Spell Caster being defensive, etc.), they all have pretty much the same capabilities (speed, firepower, resistance) with minimal differences. This takes me to the point of the battle process itself. Just like with your ships, in the first trilogy, enemy ships also had very different capabilities. The Dark Angels and the Val-Fask fighters would make clear use of their speed and mobility to cause you trouble, same with other ships. In GA II the 2-D combat system makes any difference in size and speed meaningless since the battles were like those between medieval knights: charge, turn and charge again. Finally, the Angels special attacks were ridiculously overpowered and easy to charge, each one guarateeing a single hit kill against any enemy that was not a boss. In other words, if you administered them correctly there was no way you could lose. And before anybody mentions the first person mode, it was present in the first trilogy too and it doesn´t really compensates for all other stuff. Regarding the manga, there are sites out there were you can read scanlations. I recommend Syuura which is the scanlator or Mangafox if you don´t want to download the chapters. There are only sixteen chapters translated so far but I think it would be helpful if you read them.Dashguy 05:09, September 6, 2009 (UTC) ———————————— Well, you still have the 3D following view, you just can't keep track of the status of your other ships or issue them commands in this mode. I'm thinking they made this change to make it easier to manage using only the 10 buttons on the PS2 controller, although I have not played the PS2 versions of the original trilogy, so I don't know how they handled that. I truthfully didn't see a big difference in the AI fighting style between the two sets of games, more or less, from what I could tell, the AI would distance itself appropriately from the target, then make a straight run at it, firing at it then moving out of the way at the last minute, regardless of which game series it was. If you were trying to escape with a wounded unit, they wouldn't dodge either, just head in straight line back, which would often end up with them being pounded on. The first person shooting mode from Brave Heart element in GAII is somewhat unrealistic, and I think tends to make your strategy lean more towards using the Brave Heart attached unit separately from the other Emblem Frames, though it depends on which frame you have Brave Heart attached to. Makes me wish there was a better unit management system. In terms of the differences in stats, between the units, you can still see a difference in the Rune Angel Frames. Especially with Brave Heart attached. Without a doubt, Anise's was the fastest, making her my preferred choice when using her as an individual unit to take out as many ships as possible. I don't remember who exactly anymore, but I remember one or two of the ships tended to take more damage, so I was always having to send them back earlier for repairs. I think they all still have unique characteristics in GAII. I truthfully found some of the levels quite challenging, although perhaps that was just due to my desire to prevent any allied ships from being destroyed. A lot of the challenge I suppose was making up for the poor allied AI, especially with there being less command options than in the first trilogy, but as I've said before, the AI wasn't that great even in the first trilogy. Sometimes they would miss with their special attacks, or it would take them a long time because they needed to be stupid and go across the map to make their attack run for the special attack, and you had to keep that in mind. There were also different difficulty modes in GAII for the battles (at least in GAII-3); are you sure you weren't on an easier difficulty? I find it interesting that you should recommend scanslations, shouldn't we first advocate the buying of the merchandise before suggesting methods of obtaining them less than legally? I mean a fair portion of the GA manga is available already officially translated into English, although as I've said in my profile, I have problems with some of their translation inconsistencies, especially regarding military rank. That doesn't actually mean I've read them, I've only skimmed through them for information. I'm hoping to pick them up in Japanese at some point and read them that way. -Amakase 01:18, September 7, 2009 (UTC) ____________ I've got the PS2 version of Moonlit Lovers and there is a small menu with a series of commands for each Emblem Frame which can be opened next to their display icons on the left side of the screen in order to coordinate the attack, retreat, recharge, healing, etc. For those who don't know japanese the learning is a matter of trial and error. It is true that the AI has never been really competent in any of the GA games but like I said before, the 3-D style from the first trilogy made things more challenging. The Val-Fask fighters were quite annoying thanks to their speed and size and could easily give you chase and take you down when you were retreating to heal or recharge. In GA II all the ships are slow behemots whose best feature was the ability to shoot fireworks in every direction. I really didn't saw any significant difference between the Rune Frames except when your partner's affection reaches the highest point in which the ship gets a considerable boost in speed and firepower. I admit I had no idea there were various difficulty levels (maybe I was really playing on easy?). However, I found the administration of the special attacks to be far more easier in GA II: using them in the first person mode, aiming at several enemies at once (Hyper Blaster, Genocide Bomber...). Finally, I'm not going to start a discussion about the legal aspect of scanlations here. The only reason I recommended them is because, honestly, I thought you had no access to the books. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure you saw that Eonia has got an holographic image of Shatoyarn aboard his ship, right? I don't think he got one of those in Project GA.Dashguy 14:16, September 7, 2009 (UTC) ____________ You're right, if I remember correctly, I don't think any of the enemy ships could actually keep up with the Emblem Frames in the GAII series, even the "High-speed" ships. They could get annoying if you were trying to protect ships though just because they were still fast enough and armored enough that without a full attack on them, they could generally make it to the ships you were trying to protect and cause some decent damage. In terms of the different difficulty levels, I do believe it is only for the last game of the GAII trilogy, I remember being excited at the fact that battles might provide a challenge now if I wasn't making them artificially challenging by adding my own objectives. I don't think the AI improves by difficulty though, I think it's mainly that the enemy takes has better attack and defense now. Genocide Bomber was probably the best special attack, since it was AoE and still powerful, making it hard to use improperly. Hyper Blaster was nice for hitting several enemies, but it was a lot harder to set up, with the AI occasionally causing you to only nick or possibly completely miss the enemy ships. I think you could count on Hexa-Cross Break and Needle Flechette to hit their marks, and Extreme Lancer I think hit consistently too, but required a lot of setup time as she had to put quite a distance between her and the enemy before she could use it. Zephyrus Rampage and Photon Diver would miss quite a bit in my experience. Also, I found it a good addition that you could no longer have unlimited resupplies from the Luxiole. I think I never actually ran into the problem though, but I may have gotten close a few times. Also, I just wanted to say that I was not criticizing you for recommending scanslations; I appreciate your consideration. My statements were intended as both as playful teasing and as food-for-thought on how to go about recommendations. Yeah, I don't remember what kind of relationship Eonia was given with Shatoyan in the GA game, I'll have to double-check at some point. -Amakase 17:10, September 8, 2009 (UTC) ———————————— Hey, no problem at all, you know. Maybe we should use emoticons next time? While I don't really know that much about the games, I liked what the manga did to Eonia. Sure the guy was the villain but it was nice to see he was doing what he did for more than just being "evil". It's a pity all the other bad guys aren't even remotely symphatetic. Now, regarding the Rune Angel Frames, do you happen to know who built them? I always believed it was the Will organization but I'm not really sure about it.Dashguy 20:49, September 8, 2009 (UTC) ———————————— Yeah, I'm pretty bad at effectively using emoticons. Always not sure if I'm using the right one. And yeah, I'll have to read the manga, but it sounds like they did a good job in fleshing out Eonia more. Did they do anything at all with any of the later villians? When it comes to who built the RA series, I'm pretty sure they're also remnants of EDEN's wide-ranging influence back when they were using the Chrono Gates regularly. If I had to guess, I'd assume the RA series frames were perhaps built by a rival, or perhaps local (to NEUE) corporation rather than the GA series Emblem Frames. I don't think Will had anything to do with them. Also, you think maybe we should move this to the forum or something so we aren't completely overtaking JoeJoeFine's talk page? -Amakase 21:46, September 12, 2009 (UTC) ———————————— Well, Sherry gets a small flashback with Eonia but that aside I think she's like her game incarnation, you know, highly competent and loyal. The Hell Hounds, one the other hand, change from a goofy gang to a real threat. Finally, the good old Lezom remains the same (except this time he´s in the bottom of the command line under Lulu, whom, by the way, does a fairly nice job). I always thought the RA Frames were built by Will based mostly on that technique Parfait used in the last battle in MKnK. Unlike the EMP used by the Black Moon in Project GA this wave messed directly with the H.A.L.O. system, effectively reversing the quantum computer scan and knocking the girls out. You need some very specific knowledge to do something like that (that or it was some asspull they did to justify Rosel´s sacrifice). And maybe we should move this to the forum or something, like you said, since we´re taking plenty of space... Dashguy 16:09, September 13, 2009 (UTC) ———————————— Ah, well, it's true that they caused feedback in the H.A.L.O. system nearly killing the girls at the end of that, but that's explained by the fact that Will had a massive technological advantage. I'm sure that they knew exactly how all of the UPWs technology worked. I'm certain that if the GA frames had been there, they would have had the same problem. Will was to the level that although it would take a little time, they could create and destroy universes. That in itself is not fully indicative of the advantage however, as the UPW was already in the initial stages of being able to do that with the creation of Another Space. However, the final "weapon" they were going to use in the third GAII game was going to change one of the universal constants, thereby drastically altering the properties of everything in the universe, destroying everything. This was far beyond anything the UPW was capable of. The main reason the UPW won was due to the unlimited energy potential of the Chrono Strings, assistance from the "will of the universe", and the fact that Will was not omnipotent nor omniscient; they were simply beings with extremely advanced technology. It still took considerable time and energy to implement such drastic universal changes, making it so they couldn't just snap their fingers and explode everyone. Also, sorry it's taking me some time to respond, been busy, and even though the wiki is supposed to e-mail me when there's a change to the pages I'm watching, it seems to be failing at that. -Amakase 01:15, September 18, 2009 (UTC) ———————————— Hey, there is no need to apologize, you know. I admit it sounds impressive yet I still prefer the idea of the fusion between the White Moon and the Black Moon. And don´t get me started with the final battle and that ship with the ridiculous "High-Output Quadruple Cannon of Doom" which despite all the flashy effects it pretty much sucked. Speaking of EKnK, I felt dissapointed with the whole stuff about Rosel´s return. I was expecting something a bit more complex such as "We brought you back to life and we can do the same with your sister. The only thing you have to do is helping us defeat the Angel Troupe". Sure, Rosel has his loyalties and all but I´d had loved to see the resulting moral dilemma of said situation. Alas, in the end the guy was possesed. Dashguy 01:06, September 19, 2009 (UTC)